Sales, James - Lysekil to Australia

[Bev Mulcahy]

Sales, James
I am trying to track my great grandfather who came to Australia in approx 1856 on the Sir Robert Peel.  I can't find any record of the name Sales in Sweden at all and think it may have been changed.  On his death certificate it says his parents names were Julius & Justina Lang and he was a mariner.  I don't think the Sir Robert Peel was a passenger ship and suspect that maybe his father was working on it and that's how they got to Australia.  He was born in 1835 in Lysekil, Goteborg och Bohus.  Any ideas from anyone would be greatly appreciated about mariners, emigration etc.
Bev Mulcahy

[Anders Andersson]

I responded to your question about the name Sales before seeing this one...
 
In contrast to Sales, the surname Lang can indeed be found in Sweden, and the DISBYT database shows a number of entries for Lang in Göteborg and Bohus county (no direct match with your people though).
 
Since you do have a year of birth (an exact date had been nice, but it's not critical) and a parish, I think it would be possible to look through Lysekil birth records for 1835 and see if there is a matching entry. I don't have easy access to Lysekil records, but you may want to ask local researchers in the Landskap: Bohuslän: Socknar: Lysekil discussion for assistance.

[Anders Andersson]

By the way, now that we have failed to confirm a connection with Lysekil, maybe we should continue discussing James Sales' mysterious origin here, in the discussion you started.
 
For context, I'd like to know a few more things about James Sales in Australia. You mentioned a marriage certificate. Who did he marry, and when? When was his wife born? Was he married more than once? How many children, and when were they born? Where in Australia did James live, and what was his occupation? When was he naturalized?
 
In particular, I'm curious about the situation in 1908, when James died. Who in his family were likely around to provide the information for his death certificate? I suppose none of them ever visited Sweden, thus it's easy to assume that facts may have been distorted over the years. Perhaps they had kept written notes, or perhaps they just remembered what James had told them about his Swedish background.
 
Do you have photos of James Sales and his family? Photos may have important bits of information written on the back side.

[Ann-Britt Ahlström]

Now I have looked in the statistic record of death in 1871 and Julius Lang in Dragsmark was unmarried.

[Bev Mulcahy]

James was married in Australia to Annie Maier in 1869.  I have the original certificate but has no details of mother or father on there for either of them.  A copy of the death certificate I have is where I got the info. from as it lists Julius Sales - Mariner & Justina Lang as his parents.  Place of birth Lysekil, Sweden.  The informant was his daughter Rosella - a sister of my grandfathers. I also have a copy of his naturalisation certificate which doesn't say much except James Sales a native of Gottenberg in Sweden aged 52 years (certificate dated 1888) is a miner and arrived in NSW on the Sir Robert Peel in the year 1856  I have looked at quite a few shipping records here and can find no record of that ship arriving here at that time.  I have confirmed however on the Regional Archives Lund website that the Sir Robert Peel did leave Goteborg in 1850, 1852 and 1854.  It lists its owner as James Dickson & Co but has no details of destination.  Shipping records would be a great place to start as I'm wondering if his father was a mariner he may have worked on this ship rather than been a passenger.  I do not know if his parents came with him to Australia- I'm guessing not but I don't know.  
Thanks again for your help so far.  If you can think of anything else let me know, or maybe I might have to try and do some more 'digging' here.
Bev Mulcahy

[Ann-Britt Ahlström]

Bev, I have made a phone call to Landsarkivet in Gothenburg today and they say they have old records of sailors. Maybe they can help you. You can read about it here: http://www.ra.se/gla/english/written.htm

[Anders Andersson]

Bev, this may seem irrelevant to your problem, but I'm still curious about what your grandfather's family looked like, in particular the relative ages of the family members. Was Annie Maier of the same age as James Sales? Did she immigrate too, or was she born in Australia? What years were their daughter Rosella and your grandfather born?
 
As Rosella was the informant for James Sales' death certificate, I'm of course assuming that she may have got some details wrong, in particular if she had never met her grandparents (James' parents) herself but had to rely on what she remembered from her father telling her (if she didn't have it written down). When did James' wife Annie die?

[Bev Mulcahy]

On their marriage certificate (30/3/1869) it says that the consent of Rosella Maier had to be given to the marriage as she was under the age of 21.  I have found out that she was born in 1851 so therefore only 18 when she married, whereas James was approximately 34.  She was born in Bathurst and I have confirmed that her father (Eberhard Maier) was born in Germany but no details of mother, only her name - Rosalia Schumacker.  James & Annie's children were born as follows, Rosella 1871, James 1873, Minnie 1876, Pauline 1879, Francis (my grandfather) 1881 and Emily 1885.  James died in 1908 and Annie died in 1939.

[Anders Andersson]

Thanks, that clears up the picture a bit more to me. I suspected some age difference, given that my own grandparents were born around 1900. As Rosella was the oldest child, it comes natural that she would also be the informant for her father's death certificate, when she was 37. At that time Annie was 57. Were James and Annie living by themselves at that time, or did they still have one or more of their (adult) children living with them?
 
I'm also looking for inherited names, but all I can find is James born in 1873, named after his father (possibly known as Jakob in Sweden). Have the names Julius, Justina or variants been used by later descendants in your family? In Sweden, it was for long a tradition to name the first son after his paternal grandfather, the first daughter after her paternal grandmother, the second son after his maternal grandfather, and so on. However, never a rule without exceptions, and this tradition gradually decreased in adherance up to present time.

[Bev Mulcahy]

I don't know any details about when James died.  Unfortunately my own father died in 1967 when I was 5 and my mother doesn't know much at all about my Dad's family.  
In relation to inherited names I can see a connection with Rosella Justina (1st child of James & ANnie).  Rosella was her mother's name and Justina was James mother's name.  The next child was James Augustus obviously named after his father and maybe Augustus was another name of his paternal grandfather - Julius AUgustus Sales??  My grandfather was Francis Everard - Everard (Eberhard)being his maternal grandfather's name.

[Bev Mulcahy]

I know this is a 'long shot' but I've just been looking through other disucssions on this website (bearing in mind I don't speak/read Swedish) and I came across a page about the name Sale.  Under Slakter/ovriga/slakter S.  Any connection do you think.  I obviously don't know what it all says.

[Anders Andersson]

I've been away for a couple of days (vacation) and not kept up with Anbytarforum. Besides, I have been busy resolving some trouble I have got with my ISP...
 
I haven't actually seen the name Sal? (the acute accent is significant; it indicates that stress is to be placed on the last syllable) before, and it seems to be quite uncommon. I doubt there is a connection with Sales, but I have no real info on those names.
 
I have actually no idea how Sales is to be pronounced, or how it may have been pronounced in the past. Do you pronounce both vowels? What about the final s?