Searching for Stadenberg's captured in 1709 in Russia

[Sergey Konovalov]

Please help me to find an information about my ancestors. I live in Tomsk city, Siberia, Russia. I want to compile my genealogy tree. My ancestor Karl Studenberg was an officier in the army of Swedish King Karl-XII. My garndgrand...father became a prisoner in 1709 in Poltava's battle, then he lived in Siberia. A have not enough information about the history of the Swedish branch in my family genealogy. Please, help me to find an information or people, bearing the same surname. I will waiting for the answer with great impatience.

[Per Linder]

Hi Serg, since he was officer I suspected that he could a nobleman and I checked the standard genealogy work of the Swedish gentry by Gustaf Elgenstierna. Helas no family with that name in there. However, many officers in Karl XII's army were not noblemen. Also, Örnberg (on non-noble families) and no match there either.
 
The closest I could get is a captain at Kronobergs regiment, Carl Gustaf Stadenberg (with an A), who got married in 1726 with Beata Christina Doglies, b 1704, d 1751.
 
You would need to consult a book by Adam Lewenhaupt Karl XII:s officerare which lists all officers in Karl's army.
 
Good luck in your research
 
Per

[Yvonne Korn (Yvonnek)]

Here is the information in Lewenhaupts book: Stadenberg, Carl Gustaf, f. (born) 1694 in Småland, volontär vid Kronobergs reg. 1709; korporal vid Smålands kav.-reg  1714; fältväbel vid Kronobergs reg. 1717; fänrik därst.  1718; löjtn. därst. 1741, avsked 1749 - G (married) 1726 m. Beata Christina Douglies (A 3) f. (born) 1704 d. 1751, dotter av (daughter of) kaptenen Johan Wilhelm D. och Maria Bock.
 
Almost the same information is given in Elgenstiernas book mentioned above as his wife was of noble family. It adds that he was married 2. to Petronella Elisabet Schaeij. I don't think this Carl Gustaf is the same person as your Karl, there is nothing mentioned about him attending the battle at Poltava or being a prison of war,  nor is anything said about his ancestry. He might be a cousin of your Karl though.
 
Hope someone else can help with more information.
 
Yvonne

[Per Linder]

Yvonne, did you find any Studenberg ?

[Sergey Konovalov]

Hi! It is very pleasant to find out your answers, Per and Yvonne, in this forum. Upon my word, most people around me (except relatives...) think that I'm insane man, because I'm thying to find information about my ancestors. By the way I'm a TV-journalist and I dream about family genealogy film - a present to the whole family.
Excuse me for this digression. I tried to find an information I need in the Swedish genealogical web-sites without specialist help, but ineffectual.  
Thanks effusively for your help! If you have a time, if you will find anything more - you could make me a real happy person.
Excuse me once again, but unfortunately without your assistance I'm absolutely helplessness in swedish genealogy sourses searching.  
Thank you!
 
Serg

[Sergey Konovalov]

I forgot to add about difference in the way of writing the surname Studenberg. I suppose stUdenberg and stAdenberg - the similar surnames. Am I right, how do you think? And one more question: have you a knowledge about the provenance of this surname? Is Studenberg a geografical surname. May be, there is a village of town in Sweden Studenberg?  
 
Repeated gratitude for your help!
 
Serg

[Sergey Konovalov]

I commit some mistakes and misprints in my statements. My English isn't good...

[Per Linder]

Privjet Serg, with regards to the orthography of your name, how is is written in Russian ? I know that a unintonnated 'o' is pronounced 'a', so perhaps Roman spellt 'Stadenberg' became transcribed 'Stodenberg' in the cyrillic alphabet ?
 
Further, what information do you have on Karl from Russian records ? Do you know when he died and at what age ? Was he married in Sweden ? Children ?
 
I will be in Stockholm in mid-December and I hope to be able to go to the Army archives then and will try to find some more information on him.
 
Paka
 
Per

[Per Linder]

There is a thread on the Stadenberg's under:
 
Släkter: Övriga släkter S: Stadenberg
 
Just type Stadenberg in the serach (Sök) box to the left.

[Sergey Konovalov]

Per! Thank you for sympathy to my problem! I'm really glad to find out a new statements in my theme in this forum. My research on Swedish web-sites was a test to my nerves - absolutely unknown language, so unlikely to English deprives my a possibility to work in this sites...
About Russian records. Unfortunately it's very difficult to find this kind of information in Russia... But I'm trying... But now - no results. About children of Karl Studenberg - I'm shure, he have a children, he remain in Siberia. If there are no children I could not exist... (magnificent example of my excellent English  
I don't have information about his marriage before 1709.
In Russian Studenberg is stAdenberg (CTAÄEH?EP?)...
Thank you once again! I'm very glad to make aquaintence to you, Per.  
Your  privjet and paka - good!  
 
Serg

[Anders Andersson]

Serg, I'd like to second Per Linder's suggestion for you to join the Släkter: Övriga släkter S: Stadenberg discussion. While that discussion is primarily in Swedish, inquiries in English are welcome anywhere in Anbytarforum, and the researchers already involved in the Stadenberg discussion probably know a lot more about the Carl Gustaf Stadenberg mentioned above (I think there is already some additional information about him in a Swedish-language posting).
 
If you are right about Karl Stadenberg being your ancestor, then of course he had children. However, he need not have remained in Siberia for that, but you may have additional information about that. In order to receive better assistance from people here at Anbytarforum, please be specific about what you do know and what sources you have obtained your information from, such as what Russian military records, church records, printed books, private letters, whatever.  You don't have to describe your entire research of course, just the part pertaining to this Karl Stadenberg (or Studenberg).  In what particular records have you seen his name?  We may not be able to access those records from Sweden, but it helps a lot to know what kind of records they are.
 
It's a fact that both the pronounciation and the spelling of a name may change over the centuries, especially when that name moves between different languages and alphabets.  I agree with Per Linder that the spelling with u is most likely a Russian invention, given that there is a Swedish name Stadenberg already. Besides, the prefix studen doesn't even sound Swedish to me, but that's perhaps not a strong indication of anything.  As for the etymology of Stadenberg, I don't really know, but stad is Swedish for town (gorod) or place (eldstad = fireplace), related to words such as stadig (steady, fixed in position), stadigvarande (permanent). The berg part simply means mountain, hill. Steady as a mountain, merely positive connotations here I think..?
 
By the way, is your own surname Studenberg or something else? As a matter of convention here on Anbytarforum, please use your full name (first name and last name, you can skip your patronymic if you like) in the Användarnamn field on the submission form. In that way, it will be easier to find out who wrote a particular entry for years to come, as these discussions are kept online indefinitely.

[Niclas Rosenbalck]

Hi Serg!
 
I welcome you to the swedish genealogy-forum and hope you will find it a proper page for your research.  
 
I?m very interested in what kind of information you might have about your family in the 18th century Russia. In which district did they lived in Siberia and do you have any sources from the russian churchbooks or is it oral familyhistory ?
Are your familyname still Studenberg ?
Many questions, but you made me very qurious about your family history.
 
Your family could well be the same as the one Stadenberg I?ve been written about (see: Stadenberg ).  There is other members that I don?t have any more information about, as the brother of Simon Stadenberg, named Peter Stadenberg, also a militair during the Nordic war, and Simons son Johan Stadenberg who is believed to have died in Russia (maybe he also went in Siberian-exile after the battle of Poltava, but his swedish family never heard of him again).
 
sincerely Niclas Rosenbalck

[Yvonne Korn (Yvonnek)]

Just to complete the information from Lewenhaupt's book: there is no St*denberg or similar that seemed to be close enough to be your relative. However, if he was a prisoner of war he should of course be listed somewhere. Maybe somebody who visits Krigsarkivet here could take a look next time?

[Per Linder]

Just looked into Peter Englund's Poltava - a must as background literature. He writes that 23 000 Swedes were captured at Poltava and only 4 000 of them came back to Sweden. It would indeed be interesting to know how many of these men started a new life in Russia.

[Niclas Rosenbalck]

I have information that the captain Simon Stadenberg had two of his sons with him during the war-campaign in Russia. This is information from swedish local courtbooks in the 1706. The sons names was Johan Stadenberg and Karl Gustaf Stadenberg. Karl Gustaf Stadenberg must have, in some way, got back to Sweden, cause he is listed as a volounteer in 1709 when they raised a new Kronobergs regiment.  This two sons must have been in their teenage at that time and servants in the army, no one was officer. Simon  
Stadenberg himself was captured after the battle of Poltava in 1709 and sent to Sibiria. He came back from captivity to Sweden in 1722. There still exist wagelists in the Militair-archive (Krigsarkivet) in Stockholm that shows that he get paid as an officer when he was in russiancaptivity. It even states where in Russia he was imprisoned.

[Joakim Ekberg]

Alf Åberg has written an interesting book about the captured officers, concentrated on the mutual cultural influence that arose, but he does not mention much about the ones who actually both survived the years of captivity and chose to remain in Russia. The one passage about this I found is this one: (Since this discussion is in English, and since I assume that Serg is interested in this - and perhaps able to complete the information! - I have taken the liberty to translate the text.)
 
At Krigsarkivet several records of the captured officers are kept. The records, which were produced at Piper's office in Moscow, tell where the officers were placed and how their lives developed 'from the Poltavian action in 1709 on'. Some had died in the camps, others had been exchanged and returned to Sweden. Just as short are other remarks: 'slayn 1712 at Tobolsk', 'escaped' or 'lost on the way to Siberia'.
 
A small part of the Swedish and German officers entered Russian service and at the same time converted to the Greek-orthodox religion. They were considered renegades and traitors. 'Betrayed his King and become a Russian,' is noted about those in the records. [...]
 
[Alf Åberg Karolinerna och Österlandet (Halmstad 1967), p. 75-76, my translation]
 
Not much for the quantitative study wanted by Per Linder, but at least something on the matter.

[Sergey Konovalov]

After four day break...
I was surpised about all your information. Thank you very much, it's staggering!  
I try to answer your questions. First of all, now I understand, that before taking your advise and help, I must research russian archives and know more about the official documents. Nevertheless your information is very valuable for me. Niclas, you are right - the story about Karl Stadenberg is an oral familystory. But as a dilletante in genealory science and researching I'm shure in this story  
My own surname is not Stadenberg. Notorious Karl Stadenberg firstly lived in Tobolsk (Siberia), than in my native Tomsk. The next ancestors with the surname Stadenberg I know is my grandgrandfather and mother. They lived in Tomsk in the second part of the 19-th century. I even have (at home!) church records abot their wedding, I even have their photos (~1880-1890). Next Stadenberg is my grandfather Sergey Stadenberg (their son). He married in 1912 (also wedding photo and even a blessing icon). A lot of ARTEFACTS remain after them, I even remember my grand father and mother. (To the point I'm 25 years old). Their daughter is a mother of my mother.
The story about Swedish line is my grandfather's. Until 1930-40 they have a lot of interesting documents and evidences about this story. BUT 1930 in USSR were, as you know, the years of Stalin's repressions. Everybody were afraid of the execution and my reletives destroy most photos, unique documents and even tsar's gold and silver coins. Just some documents and photos remained after KGB (NKVD) searching.
I'm trying to continue my genealogy searching in Russia. I hope that later a may ask you some questions else. Thank everybody for your help!
 
P.S. I will check this forum everyday in hope of new replies...