Nils Martin Seagreen (Sjogren) Ney

[Mary Beth Bearden]

I seek information on this person.  He was born about Feb.4, 1848 and maybe born in or near Malmia, Malmae, Sweden?    I would like to know who his parents were.  Thanks,  Mary Beth

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Mary Beth,  
 
The town of Malmö alone had some 10,000 citizens at the time (not counting the surrounding parishes). Unless he can be found in some database, locating him may take *lots* of time. Fortunately there's a free-of-charge DDSS database that contains many church records from southmost Sweden, including 6 out of the 9 parishes in Malmö (that site is in English so you can even search it yourself). But, none of the database's Martin or Mårten born in 1848 matches yours. He might still be there somewhere, we just can't easily tell. Lots of church records remain to be typed in, and even for the parishes in the database only a certain time span may have been included so far.
 
You might be interested in hearing about a possible origin for the name Ney. It's mentioned in this thread (in Swedish) that when Swedish soldiers were assigned names, it was not unusal to use the names of foreign generals. So your relative might've had a soldier ancestor.
 
BTW, generally, it's recommended to post all one's questions about the same person or family in a single thread, so people have easy access to all the facts presented so far. It also reduces the risk of other researchers doing the same work over again (one might come across an older thread where it looks like the matter is still unresolved). These are the other threads I can find about your Seagreen/Ney family:
 
earlier question 1
earlier question 2  
earlier question 3
earlier question 4
earlier question 5
earlier question 6

[Mary Beth Bearden]

I will keep in mind to put my searches all in one.  And thank for that.  My pieces of information were given to me a little at a time so I put each part of info into each search as I received it.
 
Regarding question #6 - can you tell me what that document says - the writing underneath Nils birth record?  And how can I get the full copy size of that document?
 
My father and grandfather said I descend from Marshall Michel Ney.  I know two of his sons served in Sweden but I do not know what part.  The years were 1824-1830.  Marshall Ney's sons names were Michel Louis Felix and Joseph Napoleon Ney that were in Sweden during those years.
 
So how to know if I am Ney or Christophersson?    Was Nils Ney adopted by a Marten Ney?  Was he given Ney name as he was military?   Did Dragon Marten Persson Ney married to Kjersti Larsdotter, married Dec 30, 1852 ever show record of having a child living with him named Nils?  Would this Marten' military record SD-04-0057-1845 show his parents and grandparents, siblings or children even if adoptive or illigitimate?
 
Some say that Benghta married Per Torkelsson and that this man was mean to Nils so Nils came to live with a Marten Ney.  If this is so, would Nils have taken on the Ney name?
 
Sorry I have so many questions!  I only try to find my REAL family and to make record of it for future generaitons.  
 
I am happy to do look ups here is USA to the best of my ability for you or any that need help here.
I would need the requests in English.  
 
Thank you for all your help and advice.
 
Mary Beth   aakede@bellsouth.net

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Re your question #6, the writing beneath Nils' name (oäkta) in the birth record means illegitimate. His birth record is just one of several similar entries on the same page in the parish's book of birth records, if you'd like a copy of the entire page I guess someone with a Genline subscription could make a screendump of the entire page for you.
 
I'm sorry, I can't help you with your other questions. It all boils down to tracing the persons through their entire lives and see what facts turn up. Good luck!

[Mary Beth Bearden]

I appreciate you very much - I am kind of new to research but will continue to see what I can find.  Thanks so much for your interest and help.  Mary Beth

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Mary Beth,
 
1. The records were kept in the parish, so it is important to see those records. They can be seen for free in Sweden, of course, and can be seen on micofilm you can see for free at the large Mormon Family History Library in Salt Lake City.However, you will spend a lot of money going to those places and you have to pay for hotels and restaurant meals, so researching in those free places isn't really free.
 
You can order microfilms of the Swedish parish records from any Family History Center. You need to pay approximately $5.50 per microfilm for a month's use at the Family History Center and of course you'd need to pay this for all of the many films you need. You have to go to the Family History Center to order and then you wait a few weeks for the films to arrive from Salt Lake City. Then you have to go back to the Family History Center to view the film or films. If you have problems reading those films, you have to pray that someone there has knowledge of Swedish parish records. If not, then you need to scan the copies you make and post them online somewhere so that you can ask others to look at the record and help you.
 
You could join the fee-based Genline site. You have a variety of subscription plans to choose from, and there are frequent specials. Members of certain Swedish American groups or people who read particular genealogical magazines get huge discounts, and if you go to a genealogical conference where Genline has a table, you get the best discounts of all. Each page on Genline has its own unique page number, called a GID number (Genline Identification Number). You can make pages larger or smaller. You can even make the pages lighter or darker and you can't make that sort of adjustment on microfilm. If you have a problem reading a name or a location or a word on a particular page, you post the GID number and someone else with a Genline subscription can look at the record and help you out. Genline is the most convenient way to see the parish records. It is probably even less expensive than microfilm if you plan to see a lot of records.
 
There are some locations in the U.S. which have Genline.
 
http://www.genline.com/resources/libraries/usa/usa_a-z.php
 
2. The SweGGate website describes the Swedish parish records and gives advice on how to use them. Follow the Themes --> Church Records pathway on this site.
 
http://www.rootsweb.com/~swewgw/
 
You can find a huge number of Swedish genealogical words on SweGGate. Go to its home page and click on Dictionaries & Encyclopedias. That leads you to one of the webmaster's glossary pages. The top of that glossary page provides links to more of his glossary pages plus links to glossary pages developed by others.
 
You need information on the Swedish naming customs. You can find several interesting and very informative articles about those customs by using the Facts --> Names and Naming Practices on the SweGGate site.
 
 
The entire SweGGate site is a goldmine of information, most of which is in English.
 
3. There is great information on the Swedish Roots website too. Don't forget to check out the information on the left side of that page.
 
http://www.genealogi.se/roots/
 
4. You can obtain a booklet with an overview of Swedish genealogy. The following url has a link to downloading the free booklet and also a link to ordering the booklet to be sent by mail. The booklet comes very quickly, so it is better than using up a lot of ink and paper copying the download.
 
http://www.swedenabroad.com/Page____15063.aspx
 
5. It is best to purchase at least one guidebook. These are excellent. Your Swedish Roots is easier to start with and Cradled in Sweden is more detailed. I own both.
 
http://tinyurl.com/l9p2c
 
http://tinyurl.com/57exb
 
6. Knowing Swedish isn't necessary, although of course it helps. Most of us who weren't born in Sweden are not fluent in Swedish and probably most knew no Swedish at all when they started. Even so, most of us are able to get great amounts of information out of these records. If you have problems, just ask for help (using the GID numbers if you are talking about a specific record) on this board and the Swedes will try to help you.
 
I find research in Swedish records much, much, much more easy than research in U.S. records. Swedish records are very complete and very detailed. It is fun to do that research but of course it takes time, so we usually have to do the searches ourselves. The Swedes on Anbytarforum are very generous, however, when we run into difficulties, so don't be afraid to ask for help.
 
Judy

[Judy Olson Baouab]

This is the Genline site.
 
http://www.genline.com
 
Their latest special is the Summer Research Special.
 
Summer Research
Access to the Swedish Church Records archive up to and including August 31st, 2007 400 SEK
(approx. USD 58**)  
 
http://www.genline.com/prislista/index.php#offers
 
Judy

[Mary Beth Bearden]

Judy,
 
Thank you ever so much.  I am most curious to find out how a person supposedly born a Christoffersson, whose mother supposedly married a Torkelsson ended up with last name of Ney!!!  I will search through your suggestions.
Many Thanks,
 
Mary Beth

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Mary Beth,  
 
He wasn't born Christoffersson - his father's name in the birth record was Lars Christoffersson, so his patronymic was Larsson (based on his father's first name). I think you actually did mention the name Larsson for him in one of your threads.
 
Up to around 1900 anyone could assume practically any surname at any time, just by notifying the local parson. Lots and lots of Swedes did this in the 19th century. Also, at joining the military you were assigned a surname, which many kept afterwards. I think you'll find this article on Swedish names interesting (it's in English, and a part of the Swedish Roots website which Judy mentioned).

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Another thing... As the patronymic stated who your father was, it wouldn't be changed by your mother's remarrying.

[Mary Beth Bearden]

So my given name is Mary Elizabeth Ney Bearden - Ney being before marriage and Bearden my married name. Which part is patronymic?  Does this refer to my first name or last name?  Or neither?? In USA my surname is Ney and my given name is Mary.
 
Well, take Lars Christoffersson - does this mean he is Christopher, son of Lars?  Or does this make him Christopher Larsson? My great grandfather is listed as Niels Martin Ney on death certificate but I have found him as Niels Larsson Sjogren Martin Ney as well.  How to find Nils/Niels as he grows?  How to find if he is military?  I know he came to Utah in 1875 but he may have been in USA longer than that.  I am looking for ship records.  What name should I be looking for on ship records?
 
And the Swedish naming article was fantastic. I can see why it is hard to determine family line sometimes - well for people who have no knowledge of the naming process.  I am also following up on the other search information that has been sent me.    
 
My offer for USA research stands if anyone is in need of it - with request in English please.
 
Many Thanks,
 
Mary Beth

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Patronymic names have son/dotter (father's given name plus a possessive s plus son for male children and dotter for female children), so Nej and Bearden are not patronymic.
 
Lars Christoffersson means Lars, Christoffers son (son of Christoffer).
 
My previous message will help you learn how to research, once you have time to check it out. We use information such as given names (as used in Sweden, not after emigrating because they probably changed) and full birthdate and birthplace (parish) and work backwards in time. It takes a lot of time and we usually have to do the digging ourselves. The hardest part by far is to find the emigrant in Swedish parish records and after that, we just work backwards in time.
 
You will find more naming articles on the SweGGate site.
 
http://www.rootsweb.com/~swewgw/
 
You can find several interesting and very informative articles about those customs by using the Facts --> Names and Naming Practices on the SweGGate site.
 
 
Judy Herbertsdotter (daughter of Herbert; this would be a patronymic name since it uses the given name of the father plus a possessive s plus dotter, since I'm female, but I never used Herbertsdotter, of course) Olson (an Americanized form of Olsson/Olofsson, meaning son of Olof, but the last Olof on my father's side of the family was my farfars far -- my father's father's father/my paternal great grandfather, Olof Olofsson/Olsson. That farfars far's father was Olof Pettersson  and his father was Petter Andersson, and so on back in time and the father of Petter Andersson was Anders something.) Baouab (my married name)

[Ingela Martenius]

A patronymic is exactly what it says (provided you know some Greek): a father-name. It is made from the your father's first name, and then you add -son or -dotter, as the case may be.
 
Today my name is Ingela Martenius, in say late 18th century my name would have been Ingela Bengtsdotter Martenia. Ingela, daughter of Bengt, of the Martenii family (Martenia being the (Latin) feminine version of Martenius).
So a Lars Christoffersson is Lars, son of Christoffer (literally, Christoffer's son)- he could have a sister called, let's say Anna, so she would be Anna Christoffersdotter.
 
Women didn't use their husband's family name - how could they, they were not of that family (unless you've married your cousin, you're not related to your husband or his relatives). And women most certainly didn't use their husbands' patronymics - they didn't change fathers just because they married.
Later, during the 19th century, women started using their husbands' family names; following foreign fashions. But it was not mandatory until 1921 when it became compulsory. In 1963, when the first Name Law was introduced, family names were made mandatory but women were again free to use their own family names.
 
However, most people started using family names in 1901, following the Name Ordinance (which was just an addendum to the laws about record keeping); the simplest way was to start using your patronymic as a family name. Someone today named Andersson can most probably trace this back to a grandfather or great-grandfather who really was Andersson, i.e. a son of Anders (Andrew in English).
 
As for having many surnames, Swedes just assumed and discarded surnames whenever they wanted to (before 1901 that is). Surnames are in many cases not real family names until 1901. If you lived in the country and moved into town, you may well have acquired a surname. Or you became a soldier, again a new surname. Or you heard a name you liked better, you changed into that. Or you moved to America - which was like moving into town - and you assumed a new surname.
So it is impossible to say under what name your ancestor entered the States. Maybe one of the names you've already got for him - maybe a completely different one.
In those days, unless you were from an upper-class family or an old clergy family, you set no store at all in a surname. Swedes are still not really attached to their surnames and it's something of a national pastime to change your surname.
 
I have quite a few ancestors who've changed surnames at the drop of a hat, and I've never had any problems at all following them. Hard evidence here is first name, patronymic, date of birth, place of birth - while a surname is more circumstantial evidence, nice but not completely necessary.
 
Ingela

[Mary Beth Bearden]

Thank you all so much.  Does anyone know what ship were most likely to have transported from Sweden to USA?  Well, I guess that may have to do with what area of Sweden you lived in, yes?  I may have more questions later but will attempt to see what I can dig up. I thank all of you for your time and explanations.  I, once again, offer any USA research that I can do for you in English please.
 
Blessings,
 
Mary Beth

[Judy Olson Baouab]

From what I understand, the feeder ships sailed from Sweden to Hull or Grimsby in England. Then the emigrants boarded a train to go to an English port such as Liverpool or Southampton and there they boarded a larger ship for the rest of their journey.
 
Judy

[Ingela Martenius]

This is correct, except for people from Skåne (and possibly southern Halland too) and Blekinge. These southerners tended to go to Copenhagen and/or Hamburg and get on their Atlantic steamer there. People from Värmland and Dalsland often found it more convenient to emigrate from Oslo.
In 1915 the Swedish America Line was founded, and after that most Swedes of course used the direct Göteborg-New York line (although it was quite slow, it was convenient).
 
Ingela

[Mary Beth Bearden]

Thanks - gives me a place to start looking for ship records.  My relative, Niels, died in 1909, Utah and was listed on birth certificate as having lived there 34 years.  That makes him present in Utah 1875 and maybe in USA longer than that.  So I shall search ship records prior to that time.  Thanks for port locations to look in.  If anyone knows of any family members of his (Niels Larsson Sjogren Martin Ney, still living in Sweden, I am happy to give them copies of all USA records I have.  I DO have one picture of Neils and is wife and many pictures of their offspring for sharing also.  I will keep you posted as to my findings and may have more questions along the way.  You are all great and are much appreciated!!
 
Many Thanks,
 
Mary Beth

[Mary Beth Bearden]

Hello everyone,
 
Well I have found something but am not sure what it means.  I got a picture of my great grandfathers grave.  On it, it says Niels Martin Sjogren Ney born STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN - lists all the children's names, including my grandfather so I know this is the right grave site.  So is Stockholm same as Kagarp, Langarod, Sweden?  Or was it back then?  Is the Niels I have found the wrong Niels?  Birtdate is same on tombstone: Feb. 4, 1848. Always thought it odd the spelling difference of his mother's name.  Listed as Bengta in one record and Bendicta in another.  Are these interchangable - like Per, Pehr?
 
In addition the Marten Persson Ney I have been on the trail of (trying to see if he had a hand in the Ney adoption of name), is a Dragoon Marten Ney and did not live in the area where the Bengta and Niels I have been looking at were and this Marten never left his home area.  That I can find Bengta was never in that area.  So maybe I have totally the wrong people?  Suggestions?  History lesson on Stockholm?
 
Blessings,
 
Mary Beth

[Judy Olson Baouab]

Kagarp is a place (with something to do with military) in Langaröd parish in Malmöhus län in the south of Sweden. This comes from the Rosenberg CD (only in Swedish) which was made from a book about Swedish place names written in the 1880s.
 
Kagarp. Indr. militieboställe i Långaröds sn, Färs hd, Malmöhus län, på Linderödsåsen vid länsgränsen; 1 mtl.
 
It is not near either the city (stad) or county (län) called Stockholm. Look at this county map of Sweden. (Actually, it shows both the historical counties and the modern counties, so there are two maps.)
 
http://www.algonet.se/~hogman/swe_counties_map_eng.htm
 
I checked both Bengta and Benedikta on a Swedish name site.  
 
http://www.historiska.se/
 
I learned that Bengta is a Swedish short form of the Latin name Benedikta which means blessed. The oldest use in Sweden was 1364.
 
Judy

[Mary Beth Bearden]

Thanks, Judy.  Will keep looking and will keep all posted as to my findings.  And maybe have more questions later on.
 
Blessings,
 
Mary Beth