ssf logo blue Rötter - din källa för släktforskning driven av Sveriges Släktforskarförbund
ssf logo blue Rötter - din källa för släktforskning

Choose language:
Anbytarforum

Innehållet i inläggen på Anbytarforum omfattas inte av utgivningsbeviset för rotter.se

Författare Ämne: Generalmönsterrullor translation  (läst 1717 gånger)

2005-02-21, 20:40
läst 1717 gånger

Utloggad Jeff Benson

  • Anbytare ***
  • Antal inlägg: 158
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-12, 04:56
    • Visa profil
Hi all,
 
I recently spent time researching soldier ancestors in the generalmönsterrullor (GMR) records of Närke-Värmlands regimente. I found one particularly good entry but I need help translating parts of it:
 


 
 
This was taken from the N-V reg. GMR of 1708, Jösse härads company. I can understand most of the first sentence and get a general sense of the rest. The paragraph appears to list Börje Hellgren's service record from the time of his enlistment (in 1701?) until his most recent promotion from furir to förare.
 
I researched the rote entry for N-V reg. soldier no. 546 and found it corresponds to Jösse company's 2nd corporal at the village of Brevik, Ny (S) parish. (There are actually two Breviks, Östra and Västra, but the muster did not specify which was the corporal's residence.)
 
I'd greatly appreciate help deciphering the old-style handwriting and insights to its meaning. In particular, I am intrigued by the reference to Helge Grottz ??lla.
 
Thanks in advance,
Jeff

2005-02-22, 22:12
Svar #1

Utloggad Hans Högman

  • Anbytare ****
  • Antal inlägg: 519
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-27, 09:40
  • Hans Högman
    • Visa profil
    • www.hhogman.se/
Here is a partial interpretation of the roll entry for Börge Hellgren.
 
Jösse Härads Company:
Förare Börge Hellgren
??? avancerade från Furier  
maj? Knut Bromans  ??lla?
?som? dödder? 10 juli 1708
?? avancerad från Corporal
af Nr 546 ?? 9 Feb 1704 ???
Hällmans ??lla f??? blef ???
Commenderad År 1703 f?? blef ??
Helge Grottz? ??lla År 1701 ????
blef Commenderad  till? ????
A?m??n ???? ????
 
Furier is spellt Furir today.
Avancera = advance, promotion
Dödder 10 juli 1708 = died July 10 1708
Commenderad = kommenderad = receive orders for service in …..
 
This interpretation is far from complete. Maybe someone else could have a go with it.
 
Om någon kan tolka texten i generalmönsterrullan bättre än vad jag lyckats med men inte är säker på hur det skall översättas till engelska, svara då på svenska.
Jag eller någon annan kan då översätta detta för Jeff.
 
Peter, detta inlägg kanske skulle säkert få fler läsare som eventuellt kan lyckas med tolkningen av texten om det låg under ”Läshjälp / Övrigt / Militärrullor”.
Kanske det bör flyttas dit.
Hans

2005-02-22, 22:55
Svar #2

Utloggad Siw Magnusson

  • Anbytare **
  • Antal inlägg: 56
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-01-22, 12:03
    • Visa profil
Så här tycker jag det står:
 
Förare Börge Hellgren
Hit avancerader ifrån Furier
uti Knut Bremans ställe
som dödde d 10 Juli A:o 1708 och
war hit avancerad ifrån Corporal
af N:o 546 d 9 Feb 1704 uti
Wallmans ställe som blef uth-
Commenderad A:o 1703 som blef uti  
Helge Grottz ställe A:o 1701 som  
blef Commenderad till Kongl.
armeen samma dato
 
Översättningen överlåter jag till någon annan
 
Hälsningar Siw

2005-02-23, 08:58
Svar #3

Utloggad Åke Holmberg

  • Anbytare ***
  • Antal inlägg: 416
  • Senast inloggad: 2024-01-11, 10:51
    • Visa profil
    • www.dis.se
Jeff
Actually both East and West Brevik was residence of soldiers, and my experience are that the soldier often stays by their residence then they promote to Corporal, and I don't have any records to translate no 546 to the right residence. But the residence of the Furir was V:Rud in Gillberga parish. I shared Siw:s deciphering of the old-style handwriting to Swedish and the meaning it's a short biography over Börje Hellgren then he advance in ranks and it cover also who preceded him.
KR Åke

2005-02-23, 09:20
Svar #4

Utloggad Hans Högman

  • Anbytare ****
  • Antal inlägg: 519
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-27, 09:40
  • Hans Högman
    • Visa profil
    • www.hhogman.se/
Here is a translation into English of Siv's splendid interpretation.  
However, this text is not easy to translate since it is not one sentence but rather pieces of information without any commas.  
 
Förare Börge Hellgren  
Was promoted to this place from a position as Furir  
to replace Knut Breman who died July 10 Anno 1708 and  
was transferred here from corporal  
of No 546 at Feb 9 1704 instead
of Wallman who received orders for service elsewhere [utkommenderad] Anno 1703
who replaced Helge Grottz Anno 1701 who received orders to join the Royal Army same year  
Hans

2005-02-23, 15:36
Svar #5

Utloggad Jeff Benson

  • Anbytare ***
  • Antal inlägg: 158
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-12, 04:56
    • Visa profil
Hans, Siv and Åke,
 
Thank you very much for the interpretation and translation of this record.
 
Siv, you make the interpretation of this old handwriting look so easy! I have looked at my share of old records but still had trouble with parts of this one. But after seeing what you did, it seems so obvious. Thanks!
 
Åke, my comments about Brevik had to do with comparing the rotar in this muster against those listed in Grill. Thanks for the additional information. I find that every little bit helps.
 
And thanks again, Hans, for the translation and all your other help. I have a question regarding your translation. Am I to understand the phrases ...who received orders... and ...who replaced Helge Grottz... refers to Börje Hellgren and not one of the other soldiers named? Or, was it Wallman who replaced Grottz at No. 546? Or, maybe a mix? I'm a bit confused. I could tell from the transcription that the text was one long sentence and therefore prone to difficulties of interpretation. Perhaps I need to look at the 1698 GMR for confirmation see who appears in these posts.
 
The last part seems to refer to a soldier named Helge Grottz, is that right? Helge (maybe Helja is another spelling?) seems to be a very unusual name; I've never encountered the name before, nor anything like Grottz either.
 
Kindest regards,
Jeff

2005-02-23, 16:25
Svar #6

Bo Johansson

Helge, and the female version Helga, are not all that unusual. Befolkning 1890 has 2111 Helge and 5842 Helga.
 
I don't think it could be spelled with j, because the g is pronounced hard, not like a J (consonant Y).
 
// Bo Johansson

2005-02-23, 18:11
Svar #7

Utloggad Hans Högman

  • Anbytare ****
  • Antal inlägg: 519
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-27, 09:40
  • Hans Högman
    • Visa profil
    • www.hhogman.se/
Jeff,
It is difficult to decide which piece of information that belongs to which person.  
However if we start at the bottom of the text it is clear that Helge Grottz received orders to report to the Royal Army (Field Army) in 1701.
Wallman then replaced Helge Grottz in 1701 (at this NCO residence).
Wallman received orders for service (elsewhere) in 1703.
 
Knut Breman was transferred to this place/position from a position as a Corporal at No 546 in Febr 9, 1704 to replace Wallman.
Knut Breman died in July 10, 1708.
 
Börge Hellgren was promoted to Förare and transferred to this place/position from a previous position as a Furir in order to replace Knut Breman.
 
This is my interpretation of the text and I don't see this text as a list of Börge Hellgren's service records but rather a list of the NCOs that has served at this position prior to Börge H.
 
The Närke-Värmland regiment was mobilized in 1700 and then served along the Norwegian border. In the fall of 1700 800 soldiers (about half of the 1,674 soldiers in the regiment) were shipped to the Baltic region to serve with the field army. The regiment participated in the battle of Narva in November 1700. After this battle the Närke-Värmland battalion needed reinforcements due to losses in the battle. So maybe Helge Grottz was among these soldiers that was sent to reinforce the N-V battalion. Probably the battalion also needed reinforcements in 1703 when Wallman was ordered elsewhere.
Source for the information about the N-V regiement: “Svenska regementenas historia”, J Mankell.
Hans

2005-02-23, 21:43
Svar #8

Utloggad Jeff Benson

  • Anbytare ***
  • Antal inlägg: 158
  • Senast inloggad: 2023-10-12, 04:56
    • Visa profil
Bo, Hans:
 
You are right, of course, about Helge/Helga. I somehow forgot the woman's version; silly of me. I guess I have seen the given name Helge and patronymic Helgesson but not often.
 
Thanks for the clarification, Hans. It is disappointing that this doesn't describe Sgt. Hellgren's recent service history. I did not find him in the 1698 GMR and no muster between 1698 and 1708 seems to exist, so I have few clues about Hellgren's early years.
 
Jeff

Innehållet i inläggen på Anbytarforum omfattas inte av utgivningsbeviset för rotter.se


Annonser




Marknaden

elgenstierna utan-bakgrund 270pxKöp och Sälj

Här kan du köpa eller sälja vidare böcker och andra produkter som är släktforskaren till hjälp.

Se de senast inlagda annonserna