Pehr & Karin Larsson

[Jordan Thompson]

Hello,  
 
I am trying to find out information on my 4th great grandfather Pehr Larsson and his family. I know that Pehr was born in Gustaf Adolf Parish,Varmland,Sweden. He married Karin Olsdotter sometime in Sweden.I have 3 of their childrens names. Erick Persson who was born 1 Oct. 1828 in Gustaf Adolf Parish, Varmland, Sweden, Lars Persson - unknown birthdate or place, and Jens Persson - unknown birthdate or place. I am trying to find out the dates and the places of birth for Pehr & his wife Karin, and any information about their children. Thanks so much.

[Marianne Lindén]

AI:6 sid 129 Gustaf Adolfs församling, Värmlands län
Per Larsson born 1795 sept 05 Gumma
Karin Eriksdotter born 1797 Råda
Karin 1819 nov 09
Maria 1822 feb 11
Kerstin 1824 nov 11
Erik 1828 okt 01
Alla barnen födda i Gumma
 
C:1 sid 21 Gustaf Adolf församling, Värmlands län
Barnet Per Larsson i Gumma
Föräldrar: Lars Björsson och Karin Jonsdotter
 
Kan det vara dessa?

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Jordan, how sure are you of Karin's name Olsdotter? The wife in Marianne's list is Eriksdotter (short Ersdotter). Also the children Lars and Jens (probably Jöns) are missing in the list, but they might be born later than 1830.

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

I have checked the birth records. Per Larsson and Karin Ersdotter (Eriksdotter) in Gumma/Brännmossen also have the children Anna 24 April 1831, Lars 19 May 1833 and Jan 15 August 1838.  
 
In AI:5, 1820-1824, page 71, Per (here Pär) and Karin are listed with their children Karin, Maria, Kerstin and Per's mother Karin Jönsdotter, b 1758. Karin Ersdotter comes from Råda 1818. In Norra Råda B:1 (moving in and out) there is a Karin Ersdotter moving from Thorsby in Norra Råda to Gustav Adolf (Gustafva) 2 October 1818.

[Jordan Thompson]

Hello Marianne and Kristina. Thank you both very much for helping me in my research. Me & my cousin Judith have been looking for information on our family through swedish records. She has got information from another researcher who could only find our grandfather Erick Persson being born in Gustaf Adolf Parish in Varmland Sweden on 1 Oct. 1828. The researcher told us that his parents names were Pehr Larsson & Karin Olsdotter. Thats all we have for information on them. Then I was on a website searching through swedish records and found Erik and his wife Wilhelmina Danielsdotter childrens information.The records were birth index's for Erik & Wilhelmina's children all being born in Tyngsjo Parish. Eriks Son John's godparents listed on the record were Lars Persson & Maria Danielsdotter.Beings godparents were usually aunts and uncles Lars was thought to be the brother of Erik & Maria was thought to be the sister to Erik's Wife Wilhelmina. Erik's daughter Lisa's godparents shown on the record were Jens Persson and Olga Andersdotter. Jens was thought to be Erik's brother and Olga was thought to be his wife. Erik's son Lars' godparents named on the record were Lars Persson and Maria Andersdotter she was thought to be his wife. Eriks daughter Anna Marie's godparents named on the record were Lisa Danielsdotter and another unknown Danielson thought to be brother of Wilhelmina. Eriks son Daniel Julius' godparents on the records showed his grandparents. So Lars Persson and Jens were thought to have been brothers of Erik's. So on the information that Marianne found it does not list Lars nor Jens (or Jons) Persson. Then the Surname for Pehr's wife Karin is off too. Does the information above state that all the children along with their father Pehr were born in Gumma? What is Gumma? So this makes it confusing. Also does the above information state that Pehr was an orphan and his parents names were Lars Bjorson and Karin Jonssdotter. Any help in clarifying this information would be great. Thank you all so much.

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Jordan, I think you got the correct information from Marianne, if you can trust the information about Erik Persson's birthdate and place. That is the starting point here. And there is only one boy born at this date, and that is Eric, with parents Pehr Larsson and Karin Ersdotter. And as I wrote there is a son Lars born 1833 and a son Jan born 1838.
 
I think the researcher who said that Karins's name was Olsdotter was wrong. It is easy to read Ersdotter as Olsdotter, but when you follow her in several records it is easy to see the difference. Never trust other researcher without verifying  
 
As for Erik's children it is quite possible that their godparents are their uncles and aunts, but it is not a rule. What are the sources of their birth records? Dates? The name Jens is not Swedish. Could this also be a misreading?  
 
Gumma is Eric's and his siblings' birth place in the parish of Gustav Adolf.
 
See the pictures from the househould examination roll 1820-1824 and birth records for Eric and his father (probably) Pehr, 5 September 1795. Note: The spelling varies from Per (most frequent) to Pehr, Pär and Pähr (the h is silent).
 

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Here is the family in Gökberg, Tyngsjö parish in Dalarna. They moved here 1838 from Gustav Adolf in Värmland.
 

[Jordan Thompson]

Kristina,
 
I want to thank you very much for all your research. You have straitened things out now with the family. It is likely the other researcher miss read the records when he claimed the last name as Olsdotter. You have also stated that they also had to other children Lars and Jan, that also was a likely mispelling with Jen to Jan. I will keep searching information and see what comes up. You have helped tremendously with our research,and now it opens up another branch to the family. Thanks again for all your help.
 
                                                                       - Jordan

[Marianne Lindén]

Fortsättning,
Norra Råda AI:2 sid 8
Erik Jönsson örsjön born 1849 aug 1
Kerstin Jönsdotter born 1863 sept 02
9 barn bl.a.
Karin born 1797 mars 04
 
Denna Karin flyttar från Norra Råda till Gustaf Adolfs församling 1818 okt 02

[Eva Dahlberg]

Jordan, you never said if they emigrated but I checked the cd Emibas (which cover most emigrants, ca 75 % - but there are counties were no parishes and their emigrants have been registered) as you now also gave the name of his wife it is a more probable guess, than if you just had someone do a lookup for a likely match of Erik Persson born in ca 1828 as that is not an uncommon name in Sweden - there are 8 with that combination in the cd that have been recorded to emigrate, so there should be some left in Sweden also!  
 
In his emigration data the birthdate and birthplace is mentioned. So if the emigrating Erik is yours, then the birth data should also be the correct and Kristina has followed the family to Tyngsjö from his birth place which confirms the link, as well as his marriage (his wife is mentioned in the last picture above).
 
Post 960086
Persson, Erik
Hemmansägare (married man)
b. 10/1/1828 in Gustav Adolf, Värmlands län (Värmland)
Emigrated 4/16/1886
from Gökberget, Tyngsjö, Kopparbergs län (Dalarna)
to Nordamerika
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 161
Emibas migration file ID: Tyngsjö W 1886 001
 
Post 960087
Danielsdotter, Vilhelmina
Hustru (married woman)
b. 1/19/1833
Emigrated 4/16/1886
from Gökberget, Tyngsjö, Kopparbergs län (Dalarna)
to Nordamerika
Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 161
Emibas migration file ID: Tyngsjö W 1886 002
 
regards,
Eva

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Here is the birth record for Karin Eriksdotter, born in Thorsby, Norra Råda.
 


 
 
The birth record of Karin's father Erik Jönsson, born 1 August 1749 in Örsjön, Norra Råda. His parents Jöns Eriksson and Marit Johansdotter.
 


 
 
The birth record of Karin's mother Kerstin Jönsdotter, born 3(2?) March 1763 in Torkhuset, Norra Råda. Her parents are Jöns Jeansson and Marit Eriksdotter. Kerstin Jönsdotter was Erik Jönsson's second wife.  
 

[Jordan Thompson]

Hello Kristina,Marianne,and Eva!
 
 
THank you all so very much for your help in searching my family. I cannot tell you how gratefull I am for all you've done. You three have opened up a whole new part of the family that I never thought I would be able to find out. Every descendant of this branch of the family on my side has now passed, so that makes it even more difficuly beings pretty much nothing was known on my great grandmothers family not even she knew much. Also I wanted to clarify that yes Erik & Wilhelmina Person emmigrated to the United States of America with 3 of their 6 children. On an emmigration record that my cousin Judith found it lists Erick & Wilhelmina's Destination as Wahpeton,North Dakota,USA. This would make sense beings they homesteaded the rest of their life in a small town about 30 minutes away. Erik & Wilhelmina had a son Lars who was born in Tyngsjo Parish,Kopparberb,Sweden, and he was beleived to have died as a child in Sweden. There was another child that was born to Erik & Wilhelmina in the U.S. John E. Bergquist. We know that Erik & Wilhelmina's son Johan married in the U.S. and we know their daughter Lisa married Erick Olsson in Gustaf Adolf Parish on 25 Mar 1879. We do not know if their other daughter Anna Marie married in Sweden, and if she even cam over to the U.S. Then for my 2nd great grandfather Daniel Julius Erickson we know that he was married to a Mathilda Nelson, but do not know if it was in Sweden or not. We know that she was born in Sweden but thats all. That is pretty much all we know about our family. Thank you all again for your great research you have done, it has helped so much.

[Kristina Gunnarsdotter]

Erik's and Vilhelmina's son Lars Eriksson, born 24 Feb 1865, is noted 1890 as living in North Amerika. Source: Household examination roll Tyngsjö AI:4, 1885-1894, L.L. (page 190) (L.L. = Lösa listan = list of people without known address).
 
Their daughter Anna Maria Eriksdotter, born 7 may 1860, moves to North Amerika 2 May 1880. Source: Tyngsjö AI:3, page 149.
 
Their daughter Lisa Katarina Eriksdotter marries Erik Olsson 25 March 1879 and moves from Gökberg to Ivarsberg 1883. Source: Tyngsjö AI:3, page 149 and 152. The family moves to North Amerika 26 April 1887. Source: Tyngsjö AI:4, page 164.

[Judith Jones]

Mariann, you said that the parents of Pehr Larsson, born 5 Sept 1795, Gumma were Lars Bjorsson and Karin Jonsdtr.  My son had his DNA tested and one family he was closely connected to was named Bjorkman, whose ancestors were from Sweden.  Their last known ancestor were a Lars Bjorsson and a Carin Jonsdtr but they were descended through a son named Erik.  Could you please tell me where and when Lars Bjorsson was born so we can send the Bjorkmans that information as they only have part of their line posted on the DNA site.  Thank you Judith Jones

[Marianne Lindén]

Hej Judit!
Gustaf Adolf socken, Värmlands län.
Dopbok
1789-1819 C:1 sid 21
Barnet Per Larsson i Gumma: Föräldrar Lars Björsson och Karin Jonsdtr.
Faddrar: Per Jönsson vid ?Örsjön, Olof Månsson i Gumma, dr Måns Olsson ibid, Brita Månsdtr vid ?Örjön, Ingeborg Jönsdtr i Gumma, pig Lena Jonsdtr vid ?.
 
Husförhör
AI:3 sid 72
 
Gumma
Lars Björsson 1760
Karin Jönsdtr 1758
Bengt 1785
Bertha 1789 död
Jöns 1792
Per 1795
Maria 1798
Anna 1803 död
 
AI:1 sid 29 Där står var Lars Björsson är född, men jag kan inte säkert tyda det.  
Kan någon hjälpa till och förklara för Judit.

[Judith Jones]

Thank you so much.  It is obviously a different family.  We still have no idea how my son is related to the Bjorkman family.  His dad is Scottish, Irish and Welsh, so it has to come from my side somewhere.  Thank you for all the help you have given us.  We really appreciate it.  Judith Jones